To keep a Camaro up and running and reach six-figure mileage on the odometer, it is critical to follow the Manufacturers suggested maintenance routine. The car fought the entire way. If you have added any factory options you think the cluster should display or interact with just put them in the order notes. View forum tools. I'm just bouncing ideas around with some guys at work about our I4 and SS. Heater hose asmb. Exterior Color: Nightfall Gray Metallic. But if you just simply cant afford the bigger engine, theres nothing wrong with rocking a six-cylinder in todays world, either. Even after taking the vehicle to dealerships several times, owners couldnt find a permanent solution for this issue. Powerfreak is the only one who actually understood anything. It was the fifth-generation model of the modern Camaro that has recorded the most amount of complaints. 4th Gen Camaro. In the end it is probably going to ruin the resale value of the vehicle as you will never get V8 money when you sell it (unless you deceive the buyer) and no one will want to inherit the likely problems a swap like that will cause. 434CID Mamo top end, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Looks amazing! 5th Gen Camaro. It can be done and a carbed 400 would make for a great ride but it will cost a wheel barrow full of greenbacks (see comments above) vs rebuilding the sixer. All menus worked perfectly and smooth. Most people get this upgrade to use when replacing the IOB radio. 2011 Camaro 1LT RS. I would trade you my Brembos with 27k miles on them for your V6 brakes since I'm trying to go faster and clear smaller wheels easier, I'm stationed at Ft. Riley Kansas though :/. ( If you have a 2 piece) P/S reservoir (V8 mounted on inner Wheel Well) Radiator fans (v6 = 1 fan, v8 = 2 fans) A/C lines (will work from v6 to v8 comp.) Only reason being, a V6 to LS V8 swap is slightly expensive, and for 95 more hp, I just don't see the point. A forum community dedicated to 1st generation Chevy Camaros owners and enthusiasts. 6th gen. Join Date: Aug 2013. you would be rebuilding the car from the firewall out. It did not go smoothly what so ever. 2010 SYNERGY GREEN 1LT/RS. A: First figure out your application (E.G. (verified owner) May 29, 2021. Sure, you can mod the V6. Signed Litho #45. But opting for the lesser engine can save you big bucks, especially when youre talking about a brand new Camaro. However, the sixth-gen is also not without its faults, as several alarming issues have been posted by owners on the Car Complaints website. However, that doesnt mean it doesnt come with its fair share of difficulties and headaches. The supercharged Camaro ZL1 offers the largest of the front brakes and the most stopping power of the three vehicles. I have Hoosiers mounted on my 17x9.5 race stars that are supposed to fit but don't quite fit.. Lol. Although it can vary based on model and options, it is significantly lower than its rival, the Ford Mustang. Most people just trim the rear dust shield lip instead of installing new ones. V6 2.8 swapped to 0.40 overbored V8 5.0 L03 (actual size 5.1L). Engine: 6.2L V8 Gas (455hp) Transmission: Not worth the effort IMHO. Q:Can you do this for Export (Metric clusters)? The 2018 Camaro doesnt have as many complaints as the previous model years did. Swapping from V6 to a V8 is not that bad, it just takes time. JavaScript is disabled. However, if youre the third or the fourth owner of one, you should expect major engine or transmission overhauls around the 150,000-mile mark. The average cost of ownership for a sixth-gen Camaro sits at somewhere between $490 to about $700 in a year. Our car, Project True SStreet, is a 2014 Camaro that's destined to be a street and strip bruiser, packing a Whipple supercharged Chevrolet Performance LSX376-B15 ( engine build story, on the dyno part one, and on the dyno part two) powerplant and similar styling cues of the inside and outside of the real COPO Camaro. The biggest dedicated V6 Camaro forum. It comes with a 30-micron high-flow fuel sock and is built with today's ethanol-enhanced fuels in mind. Something else to think about. 1968 Camaro LS swap, TH350 FMFVB, 5000 stall, 12 bolt w/ 35 spline and spooled 4.10's . If you choose to do this upgrade you will also need steering wheel controls to interact with the various cluster menus if you dont have them already. V6 muscle cars like the Camaro are simply reserved for young folks with pricey insurance and rental car fleets, right? When he's not writing, he's either playing music or listening to it. What other parts would need to be added? Q: I have a 2017+ LTG and the boost gauge doesn't move is this normal? I rate this product as excellent and give it five stars! But I would swap rotors too. 97 firebird, 98 trans am, 2001 Firebird w68 package, Please advice Window and regulator swap on 4th gen TA, Awww yeah '96 Impala SS 383 build (longest build ever, expect no updates! ***MOTORFIRE MERCHANDISE STORE***Support the MOVEMENT! Very great mod for my 2022 lt1. A. Code named "LGX," it produces 335 horsepower, 286 lb-ft of torque and can rev to 7,200RPM. A forum community dedicated to 1st generation Chevy Camaros owners and enthusiasts. As far as the wrecked comment from Envy; I was not aware that any structural damage was done to your car. The RepairPal website estimates a 2016 Mustang to cost as much as $912 to maintain annually. Posts: 3,389 Good video . not only that my gauge cluster look good it was also shipped fast to me as well. Come join the discussion about performance, builds, restoration, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, reviews, and more! But its much easier and arguably cheaper to extract major power from the V8. 16 Red Hot 2SS A8: NPP, CAI Cold air, Ported TB, Fasterproms Ported intake, E85 flex, Formatto tuned. (verified owner) November 4, 2022. However, the problem with the transmission not shifting into gears correctly seems to still cause headaches for some owners. A.Nope! We are investigating a work around for this currently. The V6 Camaro hits 60 mph in 5.1-seconds, while the V8 does the deed in 4.1. Other differences are subtle as well. Q: Whats the difference between the I4/V6 and V8 units? According to reputable sources, the Chevrolet Camaro shouldnt have any issues reaching 200,000 miles with proper care. ***MOTORFIRE MERCHANDISE STORE***Support the MOVEMENT! Highly recommended! V8 swap 1981 camaro. 5.3 install into v6 camaro. I'm sorry JoeI just assumed that the car was in an accident and that was why you were replacing the front bumper covermy bad. Not worth the effort IMHO. The stock trans mount and drive shaft will workI started out with a rust free, California car that had a 2.8 v6 and a 5 speed that did not run. After trying to get the v6 to run a i gave up and decided to swap a 355 v8 in; not knowing how much work it would be. if you are able go for it. Philip Scala Or use mechanical pump and remove the stock pump from the tank. The power steering problem is even more widespread for the 2017 model. Another frequently-reported issue with the 2016 Camaro pertains to its steering. I don't intend on doing an engine swap anytime soon. The fuel pump wiring harness upgrade is a great idea since the brittle factory wiring can't. I know you're getting a killer deal on a 5.3, but if I was doing this swap, I would at least be dropping in a stock LS2, if not a stroked LS2. Heck, new 6.0 blocks are pretty darned cheap on thier own. A: Yes with some caveats. Oct 8, 2018. Yes, yes it is. There are also some options only certain units have this makes sure you have a perfect experience. Its a genuine GM part so does not void your warranty. The only alarming issue is pertains to 2016 models that did receive a recall for a defect with the power steering. I ended up paying $600 for it. The ECM harness will come out in one piece. Some have complained that the LM7 motor is approximately 70 lbs heavier than the LS1 engine found in many F-body cars; however, with all intake component being equal, usually produces within 10 horsepower of the sought after LS1. I would start working on cars now, so your confidence and experience level will increase with time. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. I honestly don't have much experience with such a powerful car so maybe I'm doing something wrong? But we do recommend keeping it in case you sell your vehicle. Hamed is a literature student, writer, musician, and car enthusiast. A: This enables the unit to drive a heads up display module. Engine Swap Kits, Swap-In-A-Box Complete, Mid-length Silver Ceramic Coated Headers, Motor Mounts, Red Oil Pan, Chevy, Pontiac, 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L, Kit Part Number: TRD-42012 ( 1 ) Estimated Ship Date: Mar 6, 2023 (if ordered today) Drop Ship Oversize $19.99 Special Order $1,259.99 Add To Cart Compare Wish List You can change the resistor, but it's typically easier to just get a V8 tach. Create new posts and participate in discussions. The Camaro now utilizes the GM Alpha platform shared with the Cadillac ATS and CTS and features MacPherson struts in front, rather than the former multi-link setup. If im not mistaken, the SS reads a high speed on the dash, and the SS redlines at 6800 where the LT redlines at 7000? Thanks in advance CTS-V Rotors 2004-2007 Fronts: 13.97*in 355 x 32mm, min thickness 30mm Rears: 14.37*in 365 x 28mm, min thickness . What can I say about white auto and media, they are excellent, first: the product and the programming of my cluster was first class, I recommend more than 100% for their excellent service and attention and the communication was very fast, thank you for your excellent work, they already have a satisfied client and possibly I will need them again for other projects for my car, thank you. What all needs to be done to swap from a v6 to v8 wiring harness , i know how about the k member does it need to be swapped also. Camaro v6 vs v8. This is all hypothetical and just typing for the sake of having an interesting thread for myself. Thanks guys,it works perfectly, even the v4 light comes on when 4 banging. (verified owner) April 17, 2022, WAMS Yall are amazing ! It's not just a simple engine swap. S475 vs s480 vs 7875 vs 7883, CNC Heads, Rods, Intake, Cranks, Priced to sell, My very own build thread!! I just did this two weeks ago. The best part is they are BRAND NEW with warranty. If you have a I4/V6 get the I4/V6 unit as it'll be proper for that application; same goes for the V8. The input shaft on the V6 tranny is different than the V8 tranny so that will need to be swapped out aswell. Not that its a mandatory change, but if ur gunna put the time and money into it, might as well do it right. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. But these days, things have certainly changed. If you are concerned about fuel economy you probably shouldnt be buying a Camaro anyway. I'd rebuild or swap for another V6 as there are quite a few differences between a V6 and V8 car. 10. This exclusiveproduct allows for complete 100% factory correct operation of an 8 Uplevel LCD Cluster into a 4 cluster equipped Camaro with plug and play simplicity and no errors! When I try to turn under this condition, the steering wheel bounces back and forth violently. This is a slide show video of the process of swaping out a 2.8/3.1 v6 to a small block v8. At 150,000 miles: drain and refill the engine cooling system, and inspect drive belts for any excessive cracks or obvious damage. Q: Does it HAVE to be the same model year of cluster as my Camaro? 4000 7/24/9 ,Picked up 8/7/9!!! Last edited by 98blackbeauty; April 11th, 2009, 07:23 AM . If you have a I4/V6 get the I4/V6 unit as itll be proper for that application; same goes for the V8. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. You'll have to go with a cowl of some sort. Detailed Lt1 6.2 Cam Swap V8 LT1 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons. I was thinking like a Corvette engine. I say the new 4.5L diesel. Other than the mechanical aspect of doing a swap, the computer and wiring harness, another thing that may or may not be such a big deal is the gauge cluster. But it's much easier and arguably cheaper to extract major power from the V8. A: The I4/V6 versions have a revised tachometer scale for those engines as well as a 160MPH speedometer vs the V8s 200MPH scale. Excellent reliability scores of the Chevy Camaro make it superior to most other sports cars on the market. If you want to save money look for a set of used calipers. robertsuarez40 VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. If there is any question, feel free to ask in the comments below and I would be glad to answer them. Oct 28, 2014 12 va. Hi everyone, My project is a v8 350 swap into a v6 1981 Camaro with a 3.8 229 besides the motor mounts that needs to be changed. Swapping transmission also. To my knowledge there has been 1 possibly 2 successful V6 to V8 LS3 swaps in Gen 5 Camaros and the cars were out of commission for months during the swaps. Full Forum Listing. (verified owner) September 9, 2021. RELATED: Muscle Car Madness : Camaro ZL1 VS Ford Mustang And Manual Scat Pack Dodge Challenger. Some are new take-offs. There is a little more than just swapping engines out. This is admittedly a slightly complicated product with many facets depending on your vehicle build, mods etc. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. I already started grinding one read brake to clear these stupid race stars. The V6 tachometer has a different resistance than the V8 tach. Come join the discussion about performance, modifications, classifieds, engine swaps, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! These model years of the American muscle car are best avoided in the used market as they are prone to powertrain, gearbox and other mechanical issues. For most of us, the mere thought of owning anything less than a V8 in our cars is downright silly. Keep it up the work and may god Keep blessing all of you! A: You may gain some features as the Uplevel clusters have slightly different menus. I purchased the 2016+ Camaro Uplevel Instrument Cluster Upgrade for my 2021 Camaro LT1, RS. I am kind of limited on money so i am looking for the cheaper route rather it would be to drop the 400 i have in it or to have the 3800 rebuilt any help would be apreciated thanks.. Derek, if you are short on funds, you need to stay with the V6. Grab Your Merch Below!Merch Store https://teespring.com/stores/motorfireCamarosAndCoffeeNY Store ht. But it's much . A: Some cars are built with a Serial Data Gateway module calibration that doesnt pass the boost pressure data to the low speed bus so the cluster can pick it up. Chevrolet redesigned the Camaro in 2016 and made everything that was great about it even better. Back in the day, V6 muscle cars were, well, quite sad and slow. A: From your VIN! Jan 12, 2008. Upon delivery (and after installing the required wiring harness if necessary) simply plug the unit in and youll be golden; yes its really that simple. Thanks guys!! I'd just skip it and trade for a V8 if that's what you wantbut that's just me. The engine just recently dropped a rod and i was thinking of either rebuilding the 3800 or switching it out for a chevy 400 V8 for a little more power. This will be relevant to any 3rd Gen (1982-1992) Camaro or Firebird.The process in doing this is a big pa8n in the ass. The six-banger measures in at 3.6-liters and features a respectable output of 335 hp. ohhhh a couple things like computer & wiring, all accessories, transmission, exhaust, possibly radiator & fans, front springs to handle the extra weight.and on and on. You should be able to find a complete set for under $500 dollars. The 2SS stickers at $45,000, and a 1SS with the manual transmission starts at $38k. As far as I was tracking with rotors/calipers it just plugs up and you're good to go. Furthermore, some owners posting on the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) website have mentioned rough shifts and hesitations. Heritage Grille. Without further ado, lets take a look at the sixth-gen Camaros most widespread problems, its reliability and longevity, and everything else you need to know before buying one used. The cluster may report a DTC for radio communications only when scanned in IOR applications as it was designed for IOS/IOT applications but again functions as factory with no outward issues. Please Note: These ARE special order and subject to current lead time beyond our control. 6th Gen Camaro. For what you are planning to do, the difference in price between a 5.3 and a 6.0 truck engine is most likely small potatoes compared to the extra cost of the conversion from a v6 to the respective v8, not to mention the fact that you are going to go and mod the short block. A: If you wish to have 100% OEM functionality AND retain your factory or factory backed extended warranty you MUST choose the same model year cluster as your Camaro. Summit White. )Follow the Squads On Instagram!@Camarosandcoffeenorcal@Camarosandcoffeeny@Sin_Car_Club_NYCMy shops information:Precision Transmissions1454 Atlantic Ave, Brooklyn, NY 11216My Tuners Information!Enzo Racing7 Madison AvenueBayshore NY 11706Add me On STEAM For Gaming!Email: ffxivjuran@gmail.comUsername: Juran--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Current Mod List as of this video(Black Camaro):Kooks 2\" Headers w/Catless Connection Flowmaster Mid-Pipe X-Pipe W/ Resonator DeleteFlowmaster American Thunder Axel-Back w/ NPP ValvesCold Air Inductions Cold Air IntakeCustom Tune on E85 FuelAnderson Composites Carbon Fiber SplitterCustom Painted Lower Grille(Mosaic Black Metallic/Carbon)Tinted Windows 20%ZL1 Addons - Front Tow Hook License Plate BracketZL1 Addons - Dive Planes (Painted Mosaic Black Metallic)6LE - Skorpian Wing (ZL1 1LE Carbon Fiber Wing)E85 Flex Fuel Kit - DSX TuningFirestone Firehawk Indy 500 Performance TiresMRR M228 20x10(Front) 20x11(Rear) Wheels in Gloss BlackMSD Super Conductor Spark Plug WiresNGK Iridium Spark PlugsMishiMoto Oil Catch Can W/Red HosesHelix Sequential TailLightsR1 Concepts Drill Slotted RotorsPOWERSTOP Extreme Carbon Ceramic Brake Pads-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Awesome music provided by these Soundcloud Artists!https://soundcloud.com/joakimkarudAwesome music provided by Epidemic Sound!https://player.epidemicsound.com/#/ //Teespring.Com/Stores/Motorfirecamarosandcoffeeny STORE ht ; i was tracking with rotors/calipers it just takes time this... Five stars at $ 38k Ford Mustang and Manual Scat Pack Dodge Challenger 4.10... A genuine GM part so does not void your warranty 5000 stall, 12 bolt w/ 35 spline spooled! Literature student, writer, musician, and Bolt-Ons thanks guys, just! About our I4 and SS we may earn an affiliate commission, which our... As far as i was not aware that any structural damage was done to your.! Superior to most other sports cars on the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration ( )... 2013. you would be rebuilding the car from the tank website estimates a Mustang... 4 banging join the discussion about performance, builds, restoration, modifications, classifieds troubleshooting... Of the modern Camaro that has recorded the most amount of complaints a six-cylinder in todays,! Product with many facets depending on your vehicle and similar technologies to provide with! Most amount of complaints reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a of. Is even more widespread for the 2017 model taking the vehicle to several! Should display or interact with just put them in the day, V6 muscle cars were, well, sad!, either start working on cars now, so your confidence and experience will... Application ( E.G of the three vehicles mph in 5.1-seconds, while the does. Boost gauge doesn & # x27 ; s much easier and arguably cheaper to extract power! The 2016+ Camaro Uplevel Instrument cluster upgrade for my 2021 Camaro LT1,.. Six-Cylinder in todays world, either Cold air, Ported TB, Fasterproms Ported intake E85., modifications, classifieds, engine swaps, troubleshooting, reviews, and.... Model years did issues reaching 200,000 miles with proper care and Bolt-Ons different resistance than the V8 the. Extract major power from the firewall out shaft on the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration NHTSA! Concerned about fuel economy you probably shouldnt be buying a Camaro anyway 5.1L ) reddit may still use cookies... One read brake to clear these stupid race stars is a slide show of. & # x27 ; s ethanol-enhanced fuels in mind mods etc are darned! Recorded the most stopping power of the front brakes and the most stopping power of the Chevy Camaro it... Versions have a I4/V6 get the I4/V6 and V8 units the MOVEMENT: these special! Has recorded the most stopping power of the process of swaping out a 2.8/3.1 V6 to a V8 that. Any excessive cracks or obvious damage fifth-generation model of the front brakes and the boost gauge doesn & # ;. Is pertains to its steering, some owners posting on the National Highway Traffic Administration... Ownership for a defect with the 2016 Camaro pertains to its steering purchase. To about $ 700 in a year rev to 7,200RPM economy you probably shouldnt buying! Typing for the V8 does the deed in 4.1 a brand new warranty! 5.0 L03 ( actual size 5.1L ) insurance and rental car fleets, right for those as... With warranty glad to answer them perfectly, even the v4 light comes on when banging!: the I4/V6 versions have a perfect experience for this issue mounted on my 17x9.5 race stars are. Talking about a brand new Camaro depending on your vehicle build, etc... 200,000 miles with proper care swapping from V6 to a V8 in cars! Proper for that application ; same goes for the V8 is even more widespread for the 2017 model permanent for! Dodge Challenger reliability scores of the process of swaping out a 2.8/3.1 to! Vehicle to dealerships several times, owners couldnt find a permanent solution for this currently for. Scale for those engines as well as a 160MPH speedometer vs the V8s 200MPH scale mean it doesnt come its... To a small block V8 was not aware that any structural damage was done to car! With some guys 6th gen camaro v6 to v8 swap work about our I4 and SS detailed LT1 6.2 Cam swap V8 LT1,... Work and may god keep blessing all of you swapping engines out, and!. Depending on your vehicle n't intend on doing an engine swap anytime soon a show! You just simply cant afford the bigger engine, Exhaust, and car enthusiast will increase with time especially! Anything less than a V8 in our cars is downright silly i 'm just bouncing ideas around with guys! Amount of complaints many facets depending on your vehicle build, mods.! Tranny so that will need to be swapped out aswell about it even better was with! In 5.1-seconds, while the V8 tranny so that will need to be the same year. Want to save money look for a set of used calipers only that my gauge cluster good... Taking the vehicle to dealerships several times, owners couldnt find a complete set for under $ 500 dollars 35. Dedicated to 1st generation Chevy Camaros owners and enthusiasts with warranty refill the engine cooling system, and a with! They are brand new Camaro and headaches, Canada brake to clear stupid! Simply cant afford the bigger engine, theres nothing wrong with rocking six-cylinder. Complete set for under $ 500 dollars be swapped out aswell i start... Race stars that are supposed to fit but do n't quite fit.. Lol for! The IOB radio the work and may god keep blessing all of you and a 1SS with the Camaro. Forth violently shifting into gears correctly seems to still cause headaches for owners! Be able to find a permanent solution for this issue high-flow fuel sock and is built today! Horsepower, 286 lb-ft of torque and can rev to 7,200RPM the,! Front brakes and the most stopping power of the three vehicles just bouncing ideas around with some guys at about... Spooled 4.10 & # x27 ; t move is this normal people get this upgrade to use when replacing IOB! * MOTORFIRE MERCHANDISE STORE * * Support the MOVEMENT aware that any structural damage was done to car! Mechanical pump and remove the stock pump from the tank product with many 6th gen camaro v6 to v8 swap! With rotors/calipers it just takes time part is they are brand new with.! Ownership for a defect with the transmission not shifting into gears correctly seems to still headaches! As far as i was not aware that any structural damage was to... 'D just skip it and trade for a sixth-gen Camaro sits at somewhere $! Opting for the lesser engine can save you big bucks, especially when youre talking about brand... Its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a cowl of some sort question, feel to. Engine can save you big bucks, especially when youre talking about brand. Youre talking about a brand new with warranty light comes on when 4 banging with rocking a in. Rate this product as excellent and give it five stars have any issues 200,000..., do not Sell or Share my Personal Information is significantly lower its! Stars that are supposed to fit but do n't quite fit...... Also shipped fast to me as well builds, restoration, modifications, classifieds, swaps! But we do recommend keeping it in case you Sell your vehicle build mods. In at 3.6-liters and features a respectable output of 335 hp one piece to clear these race... The bigger engine, theres nothing wrong with rocking 6th gen camaro v6 to v8 swap six-cylinder in todays world either. V8 Gas ( 455hp ) transmission: not worth the effort IMHO from V6 to a small block....: //teespring.com/stores/motorfireCamarosAndCoffeeNY STORE ht GM part so does not void your warranty our! Our platform comes with a 30-micron high-flow fuel sock and is built with today & # x27 ; s this. 150,000 miles: drain and refill the engine cooling system, and Bolt-Ons owning anything less a... I rate this product as excellent and give it five stars done to your car excessive cracks obvious! Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada the unit to drive heads! Fleets, right, maintenance, and a 1SS with the 2016 Camaro pertains to 2016 that! The firewall out boost gauge doesn & # x27 ; s ethanol-enhanced fuels in mind Traffic Safety (. Is all hypothetical and just typing for the sake of having an thread. Ford Mustang of the three vehicles complicated product with many facets depending on your vehicle rival the... ( 455hp ) transmission: not worth the effort IMHO philip Scala or use mechanical and... X27 ; t move is this normal itll be proper for that application ; same goes for sake... 200Mph scale t move is this normal the V6 tachometer has a different resistance than the V8 does deed. Furthermore, some owners the comments below and i would be rebuilding the from! Hamed is a little more than just swapping engines out those engines as well as a speedometer... Join the discussion about performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and Bolt-Ons ECM harness come! Itll be proper for that application ; same goes for the V8 high-flow fuel sock is... The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration ( NHTSA ) website have mentioned rough shifts and hesitations as a 160MPH vs... 160Mph speedometer vs the V8s 200MPH scale ZL1 offers the largest of the process of out!